Whether or not they take home any hardware Sunday night, Durham, North Carolina-based Grammy nominees Nnenna Freelon and Pierce Freelon already have achieved a first in the awards’ 64-year history. They’re the only mother and son to be nominated for different awards in the same year — Nnenna in the best jazz vocal category for her album Time Traveler, and Pierce in the best children’s music album category for Black to the Future.
Nnenna Freelon has been nominated five times previously, but Time Traveler is her first album in more than a decade. Black to the Future is Pierce Freelon’s second album. Both albums contend with the loss of Phil Freelon, Nnenna’s husband and Pierce’s father, a renowned architect who led the design team of the National Museum of African American History and Culture. He died of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) in 2019.
Last week, I visited Nnenna Freelon’s lakeside home on the outskirts of Durham, which her husband designed, to discuss the Freelons’ historic achievement, their music and remembering Phil Freelon in their work.
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
What was the inspiration behind these albums?
Pierce: For me, I started diving into our family archives when my dad was ailing. We’re in this house now, which he designed, where he spent his last months, weeks, days. And that last six months, especially, I spent a lot of time right here as one of his primary caregivers. One of the activities we’d engage in was looking through old family videos. I bought a VHS player from the thrift store so we could plow through all these tapes, which typically he was never in because he was always the one holding the camera. He’d film us at recitals, birthdays and holiday gatherings, and mom’s early concerts from the 1980s. It was a nostalgic time traveling mechanism for us.
It was also a very creative time for me. Creating music during that time was part of grieving his passing. But grief has this negative connotation of being down in the dumps. Some of it was celebratory, because he was such a funny, loving, caring, sweet guy. As we’re diving into this stuff, it wasn’t just boo-hoo. It was, ‘Yo, this dude is great, a wonderful role model and a healing presence in my life.’ The creative archiving was often joyful. And a lot of it was about fatherhood.
After he passed in the summer of 2019, a lot of art started pouring out. And like a DJ or a producer in the hip-hop tradition, there’s a tradition of sampling. I had these crates — not vinyl records but VHS tapes. My first children’s album, D.A.D, was very much a reflection of that process. And about seven months later, I released Black to the Future from that same body of material that emerged when COVID happened and everything else came to a screeching halt.

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Nnenna: It was a similar process, though not as organized as Pierce’s process was. Because grieving takes time. It takes energy, focus and attention. Phil and I had the opportunity to have deep conversations as he was dying. ALS is a horrible disease, but it does give you time. You see it coming. And you have an opportunity to use that time however you see fit.
Phil was interested in legacy — hence, part of his journey with Pierce, looking through old tapes. How do you want to be remembered? Phil said to me so many times, ‘Don’t stop singing.’ He felt bad that his illness brought me to a halt in my career. He made me promise that when he passed, I’d keep singing. And I promised, but it was hard to keep that promise. I didn’t know where my voice was. I was broken. I started on a project, a vanity present for him, but I didn’t finish it. But he did get to hear some of the unmixed tracks.
Keeping that promise was hard. But the one place I found that I could explore was this ‘grief space.’ What sort of music did I want to put out there and remember and really lean into remembering? So that was where Time Traveler came from, as a way to soothe my own spirit. And then my sister died six months after Phil. My whole world was filled with transitions. I put the record out and divorced myself from any concern about how it would do.
Nnenna, your last album, Homefree, was released in 2010. Were you recording much music between these two albums?
Nnenna: People have asked me what took so long. First of all, there wasn’t a single record company that was interested, and we looked. But I was touring consistently, and I make my money when I tour. Not having a label and not having any interest from labels didn’t seem like a big deal. Pierce was actually on my last record.
And then I found a partner with Origin Records, whose business model is different from other labels. They don’t own your masters [recordings]. That was important to me, especially since I had already recorded the music.
These are two very different albums, but I’m curious about the extent of your collaboration as artists. Pierce, there are four generations of your family that make appearances on your album, including Nnenna. Is there a lot of artistic collaboration between you both?
Pierce: We just got back from a big premiere at the Kennedy Center — we shared the stage on opening night. And over the years, we’ve had several creative collaborations. I think the tie that binds these two projects is Phil Freelon. Mom also has a podcast called Great Grief that dives a bit deeper into the grieving space.
Mom would call me at 11 p.m. and talk for hours about her ideas about grieving. It’s been a beautiful blossoming of her voice. The world has known Nnenna Freelon as a jazz vocalist, but now there’s something about this particular conversation about grief that hopefully everyone will get to experience.
Nnenna: That’s really interesting. Some people stand in opposition to grief. When Phil first died, people were calling and dropping off food. And then after a while, it got real quiet. And people are uncomfortable when they see you. Should they say anything or not?
This young man, right here (Pointing to Pierce) — not only did I call him at 11, I’d call him at 1 a.m. Sometimes I’d be crying. He’d be in the middle of something, and not once did he say he couldn’t talk. Our relationship has deepened, which is one of the gifts of grief. We were both in a space of remembrance. Phil’s energy — Pierce and I were in the same room with him when he died — released, and you can walk away or you can grab some of it.

Chris Charles
Pierce, your children, Justice and Stella, appear on your albums. How has grieving the loss of their grandfather been for them?
Pierce: About a year before my dad was diagnosed with ALS, my sister lost a child. (Pierce’s sister Maya is a visual artist. They also have a brother, Deen, who’s a professor of journalism at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill.)
Maya’s son’s name was Wonderful. And that was a family experience that we all shared. He had a disease called anencephaly, and she found out when she was three months pregnant. And he lived for three days after he was born, from Oct. 31 to Nov. 2.
Our whole family was there. That was really an introduction for my children that life is impermanent, and death is part of our normal experience here. I think kids — and this is one reason that I’m drawn to making children’s music — assimilate information easily because everything is new to them. My sister approached her son’s illness not as a terrible thing, but she wanted to celebrate the life that he had.
A couple of years later, when my dad was in the final stretches of his time on this earth, we heard people often say, ‘He’s so young.’ I’d laugh to myself. Well, he’s been here for 6½ decades. Wonderful was young. He was alive for three days. That’s young. My dad had time to have a family and meet his grandkids. He achieved a lot in his professional career. He reeled in quite a few black-mouthed bass from that lake over there. He shot some skyhooks. He had pets. He lived a full life. And Wonderful did, too. From the moment he was born to the day he died it was a party, with cake and music.
Nnenna: When Wonderful died, we were in a circle. We kissed his little feet and sang him on home. We were amazed he came all this way just to meet us. Wonderful paved the way for Phil’s transition in every way — to die with grace, to die with ease, to die with community, gratitude and joy. It taught all of us for when our time comes to go with no regrets and fear.
On Sunday, you’ll be in Las Vegas for the Grammys. How do you envision the experience?
Nnenna: Of course, I’d like to bring some hardware back to Durham. I’m trying to contain myself from leaping out of my chair right now. The Grammys were announced, and Pierce and I were both nominated. Then the Grammys were postponed. But that meant that I got to be a nominee for way longer. So, we’re living in this rarefied space. Being there is going to be awesome, and coming home is going to be awesome. I don’t see how we can lose, because we’ve already won. And Phil is in this mix. I feel his joy.